Comments on: The Allusion and the Canonical http://criticalmiscellany.wordpress.com/2008/08/22/the-allusion-and-the-canonical/ Commentary on contemporary poetry and related matters Mon, 15 Jun 2009 17:41:58 +0000 http://wordpress.com/ hourly 1 By: Crafty Green Poet http://criticalmiscellany.wordpress.com/2008/08/22/the-allusion-and-the-canonical/#comment-127 Crafty Green Poet Thu, 04 Sep 2008 06:38:00 +0000 http://criticalmiscellany.wordpress.com/?p=81#comment-127 Very interesting post, Quincy and interesting discussion too. I read as widely as i can, poetry and prose, fiction and non-fiction. I also love poetry readings so i can hear poetry. You are so right when you say that the canon is used too directly (and too clumsily almost I would say). Sometimes it feels like a showing off, sometimes it feels like laziness. Interesting blog you've got! Very interesting post, Quincy and interesting discussion too.

I read as widely as i can, poetry and prose, fiction and non-fiction. I also love poetry readings so i can hear poetry. You are so right when you say that the canon is used too directly (and too clumsily almost I would say). Sometimes it feels like a showing off, sometimes it feels like laziness.

Interesting blog you’ve got!

]]> By: Joy http://criticalmiscellany.wordpress.com/2008/08/22/the-allusion-and-the-canonical/#comment-119 Joy Sun, 24 Aug 2008 13:11:25 +0000 http://criticalmiscellany.wordpress.com/?p=81#comment-119 Interesting point Quincy. I find the way to get past all this is to write from the heart. That's what I try to do. That's the place to begin. For some, writing is a calling. What you describe is where all the pigeon-holing comes from. It's somewhat expected that every writer can be compared to another writer, and there's the rub. Interesting point Quincy. I find the way to get past all this is to write from the heart. That’s what I try to do.
That’s the place to begin. For some, writing is a calling. What you describe is where all the pigeon-holing comes from. It’s somewhat expected that every writer can be compared to another writer, and there’s the rub.

]]> By: Rose http://criticalmiscellany.wordpress.com/2008/08/22/the-allusion-and-the-canonical/#comment-118 Rose Sun, 24 Aug 2008 04:06:49 +0000 http://criticalmiscellany.wordpress.com/?p=81#comment-118 LOL, I feel naked without an Edit button too, Janet. Anyway, as soon as you said "officially respectable stuff" I understood what you meant. Of course, what's officially respectable varies depending on which group of assholes you ask. LOL, I feel naked without an Edit button too, Janet. Anyway, as soon as you said “officially respectable stuff” I understood what you meant. Of course, what’s officially respectable varies depending on which group of assholes you ask.

]]> By: Janet Kenny http://criticalmiscellany.wordpress.com/2008/08/22/the-allusion-and-the-canonical/#comment-115 Janet Kenny Sat, 23 Aug 2008 12:59:00 +0000 http://criticalmiscellany.wordpress.com/?p=81#comment-115 This is embarrassing, I keep forgetting to say stuff. Quincy was talking about conducting a dialogue with the past. Themes that cross time and connect us to human conversation. I think that must be through authentic content. That's where the connection lies. (Quincy is there any hope of an editing facility in these posts?) This is embarrassing, I keep forgetting to say stuff. Quincy was talking about conducting a dialogue with the past. Themes that cross time and connect us to human conversation. I think that must be through authentic content. That’s where the connection lies. (Quincy is there any hope of an editing facility in these posts?)

]]> By: Janet Kenny http://criticalmiscellany.wordpress.com/2008/08/22/the-allusion-and-the-canonical/#comment-114 Janet Kenny Sat, 23 Aug 2008 12:37:47 +0000 http://criticalmiscellany.wordpress.com/?p=81#comment-114 I didn't deal with "challenging stuff". By that I meant really good and penetrating writing such as Nabokov''s "Palefire". But to balance that we need to read something less self conscious. Something we read without noticing the act of reading. In my case, recently it has been the marvellous police thrillers of Andrea Camilleri in Stephen Sartarelli's superb translations. I had forgotten that kind of reading. I think that poets would benefit from injecting something of that kind into their writing. (Sartarelli is a noted poet and it shows in his translations.) I didn’t deal with “challenging stuff”. By that I meant really good and penetrating writing such as Nabokov’’s “Palefire”. But to balance that we need to read something less self conscious. Something we read without noticing the act of reading. In my case, recently it has been the marvellous police thrillers of Andrea Camilleri in Stephen Sartarelli’s superb translations. I had forgotten that kind of reading. I think that poets would benefit from injecting something of that kind into their writing. (Sartarelli is a noted poet and it shows in his translations.)

]]> By: Janet Kenny http://criticalmiscellany.wordpress.com/2008/08/22/the-allusion-and-the-canonical/#comment-113 Janet Kenny Sat, 23 Aug 2008 12:30:33 +0000 http://criticalmiscellany.wordpress.com/?p=81#comment-113 Rose, Instead of "classics" and the "canon" I should have said "officially respectable" stuff. Reading to keep up with the intellectual pack. An intellectual form of fashion victim-hood. Inspiration can come from anything. How many of us read good quality thrillers or admit to reading them? We go to such orthodox places. Poetry magazines edited by those whom we hope to please. I think we all want to read finely made writing of all kinds but I suspect that we end up spending too much time in rather arid places. I think we would benefit from reading a great deal of modern prose fiction from many cultures if we are to write with breadth and imagination. We have to go beyond the traditional boundaries. I don't think that a poet necessarily finds inspiration in poetry or in traditional themes. But you know that already. Rose,
Instead of “classics” and the “canon” I should have said “officially respectable” stuff. Reading to keep up with the intellectual pack. An intellectual form of fashion victim-hood. Inspiration can come from anything. How many of us read good quality thrillers or admit to reading them? We go to such orthodox places. Poetry magazines edited by those whom we hope to please. I think we all want to read finely made writing of all kinds but I suspect that we end up spending too much time in rather arid places. I think we would benefit from reading a great deal of modern prose fiction from many cultures if we are to write with breadth and imagination. We have to go beyond the traditional boundaries. I don’t think that a poet necessarily finds inspiration in poetry or in traditional themes. But you know that already.

]]> By: Rose http://criticalmiscellany.wordpress.com/2008/08/22/the-allusion-and-the-canonical/#comment-112 Rose Sat, 23 Aug 2008 11:49:17 +0000 http://criticalmiscellany.wordpress.com/?p=81#comment-112 Janet, you seem to be equating "canon" with "challenging stuff." And you also seem to be assuming that the way in which "most poets read too narrowly" is that they spend too much time reading canonical literature and not enough time reading contemporary stuff (which, it follows, must be less challenging). I have so many doubts about all that, I'm not sure where to begin. So I think I'll just leave it at that, and go make some cocoa-coffee. Janet, you seem to be equating “canon” with “challenging stuff.” And you also seem to be assuming that the way in which “most poets read too narrowly” is that they spend too much time reading canonical literature and not enough time reading contemporary stuff (which, it follows, must be less challenging). I have so many doubts about all that, I’m not sure where to begin. So I think I’ll just leave it at that, and go make some cocoa-coffee.

]]> By: Janet Kenny http://criticalmiscellany.wordpress.com/2008/08/22/the-allusion-and-the-canonical/#comment-111 Janet Kenny Sat, 23 Aug 2008 06:57:47 +0000 http://criticalmiscellany.wordpress.com/?p=81#comment-111 Quincy, I absolutely agree with your comments. The canon—the classics— should only be used when they are the only possible common reference. Most poets read too narrowly. Remember what it used to be like to read as a child? The excitement of it and the sheer relaxed entertainment of it. I have only recently rediscovered that sort of reading. We show off to ourselves. We read things to impress ourselves and to swank in the company of other poets. Certainly we must read the challenging stuff but that isn't necessarily what will fire our imagination and keep the essential inner child alive. If we don't also read with open mouths and feel a need to share a funny passage or to thrill with fear until the plot is resolved—we've been destroyed by ambition and will probably not write anything worth reading. Quincy,
I absolutely agree with your comments. The canon—the classics— should only be used when they are the only possible common reference. Most poets read too narrowly. Remember what it used to be like to read as a child? The excitement of it and the sheer relaxed entertainment of it. I have only recently rediscovered that sort of reading. We show off to ourselves. We read things to impress ourselves and to swank in the company of other poets. Certainly we must read the challenging stuff but that isn’t necessarily what will fire our imagination and keep the essential inner child alive. If we don’t also read with open mouths and feel a need to share a funny passage or to thrill with fear until the plot is resolved—we’ve been destroyed by ambition and will probably not write anything worth reading.

]]>